Observer Notes on the Conference
THE PROBLEM OF SPACE AND TIME IN MODERN SCIENCE
(ΠΡОБЛЕϺА ΠΡΟСТРАНСТВА И ВРЕМЕНИ
В СОВРЕМЕННОМ ЕСТЕСТВОЗНАНИИ)
14-15 March 1989
Pulkovo Observatory, Leningrad, Russia, USSR
Robert S. Fritzius
305 Hillside Drive
Starkville, MS, USA
Installed on 23 Feb 2017. Latest Update 19 Dec 2017.
Bryan Wallace of St. Petersburg, FL and I attended the 1989 Space and Time conference at Pulkovo Observatory as objective observers. Our host was Dr. Svetlana Tolchelnikova-Murri, of the observatory. Svetlana worked in astrometry.
I recorded notes (and graphical details) of the conference activity in a bound journal. The snipets gleaned from each presentation are far from being a satisfactory record of what was actually said (or shown). I was taking notes from an interpreter and am confident that I must have missed at least every other sentence. Hopefully the reader can gain a feel for the gist of the talks by reading between the lines. Q&A sessions are included to show levels of audience interest.
While taking notes during the conference I used a limited form of speed writing. It involves shortened
versions of words and phrases. Examples: different = diff, physics = phys, philosophy = phil,
"point of view" = POV, science = sci,
"space and time" = S&T. Where these were encountered in producing
this document I have restored the original words.
List of conference speakers with my "notes" page numbers
Abalakin, Victor K. (Director of Pulkovo Observatory), 18
Azjukovsky, V. A., (Leningrad), 36, 54, 58
Bazilevsky, S. A., Varin M. P. (Leningrad), 34
Belostotsky, Yuri G. ( ), 56
Butusov, K. R. (Leningrad?), 57, 58
Chernin, A. D. (Leningrad), 24
Cheshev, V. V., (Tomsk), 47
Gavrilova, I. P. {lady} ( ), 41
Greb, A. B. (Leningrad), 21
Guzyukin, Petr G., (problem of space and time), 58
Kolokolov, Evgeny Petrovich ( ), 55
Manuilov, Constantine V. (Leningrad), 33, 58
Molchanov, Yu B. (Moscow), 18
Parshin, Pavel F. (Leningrad), 52, 57
Petrov Lena P., Efimov, A. A. (Pulkovo Obs.), 32
Rok, B.? (Warsaw), 42-43
Sekerin, Vladimir I. (Novosibirsk), 30
Serbulenko, M. G. (Novosibirsk), 51
Smirnov, A. P. (Leningrad), 26, 57
Shpitalnaja Alexandra A., Zakoldajev Ju. A., Efimov A. A. (Pulkovo Obs.), 53
Tolchelnikova-Murri, Svetlana A. (Pulkovo Obs.), 27
Troitsky ( ), 39
Vasiljeva, Galina? ( ), 58
Wallace, Bryan G. (St. Petersburg, FL USA), 43
Zlotnikov, L. M.? ( ), 49
Yet to be identified speaker #1 (understanding about one moment in time), 26
Yet to be identified speaker #2 {Man from} Institute of Informatics, 37
Yet to be identified speaker #3 (twin paradox), 57
Yet to be identified speaker #4 (ecology problem), 57
Page numbers are from my trip notes. In the notes, that follow, names of speakers (incluing incomplete names)
that were recorded (before corrections and follow-up completions) are in bold.
Non-conference notebook entries are not included in this record.
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Tuesday, March 14, 1989
Tuesday, March 14, 1989
THE PROBLEM OF SPACE AND TIME IN MODERN SCIENCE
Day One
Day One
10:00 AM - В. К. АБАЛАКИН [Victor K. Abalakin], Director of Pulkovo Observatory. - Opening remarks.
Changing times.
It's difficult to define time in space. Brownian? theory
became free of time problems. 1000 BC argument.
They understood well about time _________ Japanese and Mexico
eclipses _________tries to find gnosiological roots of these
problems.
________ University of __________, North Ireland, Great Britain and the USSR.
Maybe the conference can be useful for Deutschland. A copy was sent
book
Svetlana told _________________
a list of articles to be presented, 30 minutes each.
Ideas of time ______continuous space grief? Time and astrophysics.
Formation of Philosophical ____________ continuous and time__________.
(Speaker 1)
______ - Ю. Б. МОЛЧАНОВ [Yu. B. Molchanov] (Moscow) - Universal and general sense of time.
Different points of view give different explanations of time. - - Macro and micro
physics uses time continuity. ________ Some break of fm?
physics notion of time and continuity of time, but it
wasn't useful. We Need a real view - a general basis
We must know general _______ attributes _________ how to
differentiate past, present and future ____________. time goes backward?
Different logical theories. Time [has] indifference? structure
not finite about ___________ point of view. _____________
_______________ was the first who understood the dialectical sense
of time ______________ then relativity and quantum theories ____________
interupted or continuous? _________ point of view _______ time is
continuous and discrete ___________ task __________ Sense of time in
micro-process of physics today. From the point of view of DeBroglie,
Mega Volts? many difficulties ____________ sense of ______________ .
M.V.? failed in a real sense __________ structure of time and
continuity __________ all effects _________ says fact of ___________ We must see
time in another form. Maybe scientists will find new
lines __________ Maybe scientists will find the lines which failed
the philosophers. Maybe time and continuity will catch one another
in different ways. ___________ formula of indifference? about
the work of Euler. ___________ The structure of continuity in time has
new lines. Wasn't the task of physicists _______ is a general task
of all branches of science. Was the first difficult task
_______ From the cause of ___________ some effects
- 19 -
we have many images? but continuity may be ruined and changed. We must find some correlation, ___________When we find one we fail
in another. One coordinate ______________ different correlations and time
and continuity _____________ Discuss all the properties of time and its
contact with continuity __________ three coordinates of space and one of time.
four coordinates _________ empirical facts. ______________ Theory must have
a model for more coordinates than four. Theory about superstrings (SS)
maybe 500 dimensions. 606 and many ____________ SS.
Object has one dimension ___________ Discusses paradox of the question _________ in
what dimensions continuity ____________ three variants of the task.
three theories. SSs? have a place _________ values of energy but not
in ours. Theoretical physicists use method _______ Save the form for these
phenomena. He thinks some effects are not observed.
We at last, ______ theory is connected with out/our? description ________ our
world _________ only in theory. Atom? has (universe?) with two
dimensions. _________ We can't prove it with an experiment. It is
connected with synchroton (radiation?) situation.. Model of time with two dimensions.
the art? of Time and Time in tuon? ____________
Spin accompanient __________ may be observed material
maybe ______________ radius from minus sign. _________ involoved
theory widrow! _________ time with one dimension. Psychologist
tries to describe time with two dimensions. We don't
understand how time changes with one dimension. Method
to ___________ in order _________ this _______ no new views. 3 points
of view: child, scientists, philosophers. Child
The? Child didn't understand two or several events simultaneously.
Knows only of one event without synchronism. It is
a model to how we can do for order from two
coordinates to one coordinate. The? Child knows how
one dimension of time is universal. It? Was one of the potential
ways to understand time. We didn't do an article? of
break? __________ different description of continuity with several
(more than three dimensions) __________ It isn't clear which
property of time and space _________ They must be connected.
Endless __________ the question of invariance, limited and unlimited
it was to think about endless space and time ____________
It wasn't connected __________ right hand coordinates ____________ must need
many variants. It will be useful to have the? philosophers' point of view
__________ universal property _____________ didn't disappear _________
the most general point of view is more useful.
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The most interesting things in Science and Philosophy _______________ is understanding. ______________Universal circle __________ interval of past, present, future
The process is continuous all the time __________ not a property of time
but a property of the whole universe. Now ___________ discussed the unity
of time and space. The property? must be universal __________ It is
a quantity and quality which must be discussed in philosophy.
The Most general principle:
correlated time and space _________.
________
{His book about connecting? the problems of time and space
it isn't in sales. He Has only 800 copies.}
_________
Q. (Smirnov) ____ interested in the Law of zarh? preservation.
Can't answer. (Next Question)
Didn't understand second question.
Q. (Smirnov - second question) ________________________
A. First question was not replied to -- Second unknown.
Impossible to understand it.
Q. ____________ theoretical alchemists?
A. We must attack this problem. Don't want to
be an alchemist. Suppose physics has fundamental? problem
but not to be Aeln? Psychology, sociology, phy_____?, etc.
Q. About details of theories, of geometries of many dimensions
connected with this theory and the theory of this writer _______
question is, "What is your own point of view?"
A. I don't have one.
Q. _________ _________________________________?
A. _____ studied his apologetics _____________
Q. What is the aim of your ideas regarding time and space in modern cosmology?
A. ___________________________________________.
- 21 -
(Speaker 2)
_____ - _. _. ГРИББ(?) [ _. _. Greeb] ( ) - {This is most likely A.B. ГРИБ of Leningrad.}
Time is a property of the gravitational field.
Time has _______ goes with different velocities in different systems of coordinates.
Is? time _________ wants to build on one another (combine with?)
____ principles of quantum theory with theory of gravitation
by Einstein who believed in a world with four dimensions. (invention)
Level man is one line. Riemann has his own lines
_____ point of the beginning - Einstein was a determinist
_____ was the Point of View of St. Augustine ________ present object and future
objects ____ When we saw different presence ____________
for future objects we have no? memory ____________ We were blind
different from quantum theory. _________ when we take dimensions
we ________ stopped the event. About the jumping when we
study one point _______ we end the process. _____________The present has
a minute role in quantum theory. Today theoretical
physics tries to continue combine? quantum mechanics with general relativity.
{Thinks that we have enough of that theory.}
Theory of light at one moment _____________catch all together.
It was imm? for understanding the past in our world
flash of our world. singularity (Big Bang?)
Cosmology ________ point _________ problem about an object must be in the future
___________ mashing of time (time machine) problems. How we
can have in our memory future events.
In our news some days ago there was an interview about a
time machine _______ Stars of Vega
( ) Earth-------------------------------------------( ) Vega
great distance
___________Theory of Einstein continuity about a point
very fantastic literature ___________ impossible in
the real world. We suddenly _______________ to change our place
from Earth to Vega _________ black hole ________________we know about
an object with minus density ___________ fantastic!
Quantum effect with field of minus ____________________
Sept 1988 publication Phys. Rev. Lett, Thorne
Condenser weak energy condition? project
must be time machine. E < 0
Men's journey to the past.
We have a tunnel, earth to Vega
- 22 -
mass of this tunnel must attract _______________ near Vega ________may be an asteroid. ________ Time goes slowly near Vega.
We have an observer. Would he have to see _____________four hours
the asteroid moved quickly ____________ only two hours _______whole circle
in our neighborhood. ________Observer jumps into the tunnel __________
be at earth ____________at earth two hours at Vega __________ two
may be a situation as to when we can jump there ___________ the world.
This observer can meet himself in his past.
{Wants to show Minkowsky diagram}.
the triangle's hypotenuse is shorter than R2 {i.e.} (x2 + y2)
at the point of the observer - under___________ was earth.
And our observer must be in his own past. Possible}
in theory -- this journey. Way to transmit information.
We can send to ourselves about future and past.
. . . paradox many we have _________ may we change
our life, our future. Is it possible to move at
last in time, and back?
We cannot change anything. ______Why it is impossible ____ no answer.
One variant of __________________________ future and past must be
a connection _________ a direct connection. A cat of Schrodinger can
leave/live? and die? at one time. Solution
Now, 3rd Solution _______ jumping thru time
this question in connection with the birth of our universe.
Classical theory _______ Gamov ________ to the point of the singularity
limited to our understanding of Time and Space. Another
Tolkein? ________ thinks the quantity? of cosmological time is
theoretical _______ how our universe was born from nothing ________
quality of (bond of Victor?)
- 23 -
Variability of material
The Equality of the wave function is missing _____ many ways
We have the right line but in parametric form
time is a microscopic quantity. _______ The notion of time
time of ___________________ but first point of center of coordinates
is nothing _______ here is absent a singularity
The sense of equality failed because the wave quality must be only _________
for such an observer ___________ the observer is absent. The World of our
_____________is a function of the observer but we don't know who he was.
Maybe to take the point of view nower? The Idea of Alan Goot Guth?
The Universe must be divided into two parts. ___________ Maybe our world
universe must not be without limit in time ___________universe
must be have had many births in the past. but why we
don't have them in our memory is a problem.
Q. Is it a relative {relativity?} invention?
Q2 GTR has that mah {math?}
Q. What is the connection between electromagnetism and gravity? _________
universe of light ____________________
A. Four dimensions of our world has the sense that we can measure
the fourth signal? The constant which we use for
changing from one coordinate system to another is the speed of light.
We know that the speed of light was is? a universal constant.
Q. We have a great difference between St. Augustine and Modern Physics.
nobody understands the question.
___________ didn't see the connection between St. Augustine and Modern Physics.
Q2 How do you understand time? What is time?
A. I Don't know.
Q. Topology Theory _______ Theory was little command about
two points _________.
- 24 -
(Speaker 3)
_____ - А. Д. ЧЕРНИН [A. D. Chernin] (Leningrad)
Continuity and time in modern astrophysics.
We haven't a determination of time which can be built.
St. Augustine knew what time is .... when asked
he didn't really know.
In science this question is very clear. An astrophysicist
doesn't think about time all his life.
The definition of time is a very hard task.
We have dialectical Marxism -- time is a form of materialism.
25 years ago, Lecture of one philosopher. ______ When English
know time is a form of materialism ________
It was _________ a physicist who asked a philosopher about facts
that can be understood from his? point of view. But the Physicist attacked the philosopher
cannot give scientific facts. The Philosopher did not fail his memory.
Physicist and philosopher didn't understand one another. Students
were angry against philosopher because their brains were unclear
because of philosophy.
NO, we haven't? a full concept of time. ________ science?
Var.? ruin ________ crisis in science because tunnel
(Barutsky?) hand ____________ Now science is crazy ________
World line _____ Greeb article _____________ against (TORN?)
topological _________ pecularities _______ top ________ from geometry,
not physics. Theory of Relativity on basis of Topology.
Topology was without ___________ undetermined indefinite construction.
We _____ somebody? Einstein think about universe with general relativity theory ______ topology
but Friedmann was against this point of view. He said __________
We can construct cosmology modern with many lists of continuity?
but Einsteinian continuity must have a limit.
Friedmann had a part in the theory of time. He said the
possible beginning of time. Philosophers have such things
but only Friedmann had a 1st point of time _________ Zero point of time _______
before that -- time and the universe were absent.
Both from nothing ___________ a singular point _______ the universe was a point
and time was absent ___________ then the world begins.
Comn? of a real property of time with physical process of world
Is time only a property of material or more complicated?
1st principle of dialectic wasn't a point of view _________ didn't
prohibit ____________ changing may be continuous and
jumping. ____________ maybe time is a form of a living something
- 25 -
My point of view Absolute zero of time is not usable.
The Universe must be created at the zero point of time.
We know before what they think about Friedmann.
Birth of time was useful.________ property of time
connected to an observer ___________ things
All that we said in cosmology needs to be proved
br observation.
Many modes __________ We can be in contact with those universes.
Academicians in Moscow asked "What is it?" _______ When we have a ____________
think we cannot prove in any way __________ it was not science,
The physics of __________ can ___________ his experiment of science.
statement _________________
We can be in space but can't be in time __________ only in one
point ________ time is changing in every moment
Discuss cosmic singularities external points is un-useful.
We didn't know about going on in time ________. Cant go back
in time __________ general point in physics _______ statistical? physics. 20 pages _______
Landau and Lifshitts, understand clear explanation ____________
They couldn't speak about it. __________ Different? part of the text.
Time and entropy _________ but now St. Augustine ____________ what it is _________ a problem
of time __________ Academics too. How is going time with entropy?
Have we experiments to prove _______ Sakarov said not proving ___________
but determining.
When we can think about 1st? basis of science we
can't know what time is. Augustine is in vogue today.
We don't know more than him on the question.
Q. What do you think about the time Gorbachevsky? who
measured moving _______________ ?
A. Yes. In Physics ___________. Friedman too. In Time we use the notion
connecting? of time __________ Physics ______________ In his measures _________ processes _________
it's absent in some Topological theories _________ with explanations
connecting? time and space. We have information about curvature of space
but we don't know whether it is limited or not.
Q. Is there An experiment for proving positions?
A. Yes, it is.
Curves of space ________ volume __________ connection?
A. No.
- 26 -
Q. The theory about time beginning at one point? A. Time can't go backward? ______ fact of ________
Q. What is nothing?
A. It is something. If we can't do something
we must not discuss it.
This is discussing nothing.
Cosmological nothing may be a vacuum but I am
not sure.
(Speaker 4)
12:50 - A. П. СМИРНОВ [Smirnov A. P.] (Leningrad) - Hegel's point of view
a ≡ a
a – a = 0
a - 1/a = ∆
Everything, if it is real, must be itself, herself
and another ___________ Anti I
About Hegel and his point of vue about space.
0 ∞ =
Only by some individuals ______________________
we have some
___________________________________________
{No further notes for Smirnov.}
(Speaker 5)
13:00 - _. _. ______ [Yet to be identified speaker #1] ( ) Understanding about one moment in time _______
2 events, one moment. We cannot define ________________
simultaneously ____________ Einstein himself criticized
the middle point of a line ________ The Velocity of light {must} be determined
not by the middle, but only as a cost? at one site.
Simultainiety is not a matter? __________in the middle of a line
An Example from Einstein ________________ train and {an} observer at {a} road
- 27 -
If the light from A and B meet at the middle the signals
are simultaneous but Einstein himself had another
description _________ Observer from train met light earlier.
He catches a mistake in Einstein. ________________________
________________________________________
Time is a method or condition of being of material
not a form but a method.
We can image two individuals _______________________________ definition of time
Time is a condition of living objects
End of presentation.
Lunch in Canteen
Coffee at Svetlana's
Coffee at Svetlana's
15:05 - _. _. __________ ( ) _______________ This may have been someone making an announcement.
(Speaker 6)
15:06 - С. А. ТОЛЧЕЛЬНИКОВА-МУРРИ [Svetlana A. Tolchelnikova-Murri] (Pulkovo Obs.) History of fight of over
different versions
Historical review of this problem to the end of the 19th century.
Problem began to be discussed - philosophers not in front line,
at least nobody discussed fundamentals, practice of humility
Astronomy's basis of ____________, astrometry too - neither point of view
began by the turn of the century. Science of cosmology and earth, item philosophers? not
that of observers in astronomy. Astronomers came to discuss
the problem of time and space epoch ________________
More difficult to understand than ___________________.
- 28 -
It was not a paradigm _______ at first -- of humanity -- before
renaissance -- basis of ideals. Newton said "in the shadow
of giants" -- but who ruined something -- had real sense.
It was such ruined in your own interests, mistakes in science.
Every point of view came to winter, to absorb everything.
Process of genuine humanity. for us a time for every human
individual who has this understanding from birth but for
humanity in general, understanding of process______
Astronomers dealt with an ideal system of scale and time, coordinate systems
depends on the liberty of the observer ___________ depends on aim of studies.
We can imagine six dimensions of space but ____________ we
have difficulty _________________________ It is difficult to understand
bodies of in space ________ it is empty, simple ________ cetate? from space
We couldn't receivex the idea of clean space ________ out of my talent
space is an ideal __|_____ not _______. Space was out empty? of objects.
It was a source of mysteries. Every idea we can understand but
we surround one another _________.
Berkeley hoped in a double world, but today ingreeb? double world _______
It is a collective malady. There are more examples of
a/the double world in the minds of philosophers.
{Now, she says}, Philosophers today who don't want to deal with
time and space in general ________.
For the first time all that understanding of gen? understand
we had to find its sources.
Our organs of sense sedate? from about ________ that we can know
something in the world with our senses but space is not from
our senses. It _______ humanity is the measure of all things._______ Sophistic
phrase. Herodotus says that geometry was born in 100 BC
when it was needed to measure the earth, but the brain
is a very great thing. ____________ how the senses became understanding
begins in grammatical understanding. We _________take classification
of objects _______ we don't do ideals _________________. We can imagine it ______.
We can rx receive idea image of all figures so on abstract understanding
of point-line-figures _________ such a thing as (Copernicus?)
{Now she reads part of ____________.} He used geometrical
images (bodies). We see physical bodies ________ study them ___________
get understanding about them.
____________ and Astronomy are the basis of the science of understanding time and space.
______________
After geometry kinematics became a useful tool __________ When we
can see the history of all understanding from antiquity to now
we can be proud because _____________.
Projective geometry was a method of antiquity ancient? astronomers and philosophers. Every
astronomer understood precession, etc., has his sources
in observations __________ It was difficult to measure distances because of earth's
__________ little base short baseline?.
- 29 -
Study of ______________ from antiquity science to present.
Fields disappear when they do their task
but it is ___________ general universal measures for understanding, general understanding .
Measurement of speed and time need a universal standard. ________ gave them a scale.
the (develop?) but not ideal. The 1st example of
distinction is the radius of the earth ___________ all units from astronomy.
Now we have an atomic standard of time _______ the modern scientists and philosophers
take the atomic standard as a universal unit of time. We measure time
by the number of days. Every (clock) can give to another generation
about time and space. It is the relationships __________ literature
____________ Newton was not as simple as we read and hear.
He had empty space. Only one philosopher Chessov Cheshev? didn't speak
about Newton. Deformation defamation? of _______________
Astronomer's part of _____________ it is ________________.
the discussion of problems we can see ___________ antiquity to middle ages,
St. Thomas etc Aquinas
Middle ages, Copernicus has the source of ideas from the middle
ages. He selected stars for his catalogue. He ____________
thought that these stars are not moving. ____________
Newton's theory, we can see by the forces. Every law
of nature must be proved. _____________ Pedological studies _______
to bedground ___________.
Even Marhoff (Markov?) and Poincaré were against the view that Newton
was very simple.
We have many mistakes in terms. dangerous mistakes
from the 19th century. We can see them ________
This is a statement from Einstein's "Physics and Reality."
in inertial system coordinates.___________
We do measurements by the stake region (solid stake)
_______________ all our science was ruined when we begin to measure something.
{She listed problems in modern astronomy.
after scientific difficulties}, we had war and other social conditions
which interrupt scientific discussions. Science, Philosophy,
Q&A
Q. What is exactness in astrometry?
A. We measure time to 1 x 10-9 seconds. Coordinates to 1 x 10-10 ?
Q. System of Quasars - can it be used?
A. System of time based on pulsars, system of radio coordinates.
We have a system but not to be used alone.
This question changed ______________ was not long lived objects.
- 30 -
14 MAR 1989
Q. In celestial mechanics with dynamic formulations ________________________?
A. I am not in celestial mechanics ________is possible to build
a dynamical system of coordinates __________ a task of Kashee?
Q. Laws of Newton ______________________________?
A. Newton didn't discuss the velocity of gravitation.
Q. (Couldn't hear question.) Newton theory in dynamical bodies of the solar system
units internanational astronomical union___________?
A. Three years ago they decided to study the question of time.
What is time in astronomy? Trajectory of comets
need a system of coordinates, such as 100 years ago.
We have some systems of coordinates in different conditions and times.
15:45 - В. И. СЕКЕРИН [Vladimir I. Sekerin] (Novosibirsk) The role of Astronomical Observations in Forming the Concepts of Space and Time.
first measurement of velocity of light.
T1 = 1.77 days = 1.5x105 sec. Orbit Period of Io
T2 = T1 + 15 sec; T4 = T1 - 15 sec.
T1 × C = λ λ/(C-V) = T2 Note: λ = 4.5e10 Km.
λ
T2 + T4
——— = T4 C = ———— V
C + V
T2 - T4
Roemer -- They had to discuss it in Academy of Science. Cassini didn't want to entertain it.
- 31 -
- 32 -
14 MAR CONT
Q1 Gives (sedate?) from his paper - printed -- relativity
is dangerous to science and anti Marxist.
Teachers and shamans.
Q2 What is his opinion?
(Shamanstoy?) _______
Relativity begins from Marham? only
Q3 Big argument gets going _______
his talk is apparently a departure from text books.
Q4 Fill in later-- if possible -- Use Sekerin Q4 if entered later.
{MC trying to keep things in order.}
{Sekerin up and down.}
16:15 - Л. П. ПЕТРОВ, А. А. ЕФИМОВ, [Lena P. Petrov, A. A. Efimov] (Pulkovo Obs.) {Lena gives her talk. - She has been interpreting
for me. May get an English version from her later.}
_____________
{Lena seems to be talking about Svetlana.}
{Reaction from audience is good.}
Q.
A.
End of presentation.
- 33 -
14 MAR CONT
16:35 - К. В. Мануйлов [Constantine V. Manuilov] (Leningrad) Structure of Space and Time.
This _____________________ was of Rogero Boschovich. Valinsky is an interesting figure.
Killed in 1913 but was a scientist too. _________ view of Space and Time when we
study moving bodies _______ electrical points _________ St. Charles, {biblical
text. very unusual.} Time and space from the bible ____________
We have a mass of materials ____________ Stability of stations of bodies
quantum electrodynamic electrons _________ Space with a body with
energy. We can change the energy of some dynamical systems
connected to one another __________ System formulated by Boscovich?
He was a part? catholic author but was a (great) scientist too.
The 30 years will be short _________ We tried to explain the
the theory of Boscovich because it is a clean
mathematical apparatus (antique!) like Newton (terminology)
law of gravitation, Newton __________ the state when a body
can stay at a place for a very long time._______ wants to explain?
task of Roche? _________ the body moves in an ellipse a and b
Book is? from Science from Franklin
Integrals of Motion
two values characterize the motion, time and trajectory
Now without Newton's method ____________ elliptical functions, two bodies
_______________ to know long line of ellipse ____________have from
K and A are two elliptical functions Jacobian?
two various variables? ___________ in connection with one another __________ must be formulated
They bite into each other.
- 34 -
{14 MAR CONT.} Maybe formulated how ___________ whole Numbers
If every body of two values _________ be formulated in Algebraic ___________
Poincaré ___________ proved such to be the case ____________various formlated
algebraic formulas.
IF we can see by the eyes of Boschovich, eyes of classical _____________
we can see movement of electrical charges!
Boschovich can receive? more than Quantum theory.
Q. {He was asked about} Tetchelnitsky.
A. I like Boschovich he was a great scientist but I didn't know that he could
receive modern theory
__________ Decided the task Tested? by another way.
Q.What about that sigma?
A. That is an epsilon _______ for eccentricity.
Q. __________________?
A. 3rd variant of proof______ by help of whole number polynomials
______________ a new variant.
{Speaker Tried to sit down.}
Q. _________________?
A. The energy must be changing all the time but the
equilibrium is there.
16:57 - C. A. ВАЗИЛЕВСКИ, М. П. Варин [S. A. Bazilevsky, M. P. Varin] (Leningrad) - {in-absentia paper being read.
-- See Svetlana for details.} {Varin may have been the reader.}
Maxwell's formulae are not in connection with relativity.
{According to Svetlana, Bazilevsky is known as the father of the Soviet submarine fleet.}
{He} May be related to Bazelevski who built the first astrophysical observatory in his home.
When we receive different velocities _____________ law was proved
by experiments on earth and cosmic________________ space the velocity of light
was constant --- was not proved.
Magnetic conduction depends on time
∂ρ/ ∂t is wrong! But Einstein used it anyway.
Bar Варин {Varin} discussed all the formulas of Einstein.
- 35 -
{Shows Poster with Maxwell's laws.}
Maxwell made a mistake - now is inaccurate conclusion
shows up in four coordinates Space and Time
______
these functions ____ moving light -- We change systems of coordinates
_____________
velocity of wave -- he received from Galileo
and it is similar to Newton.
speed of light velocity moving system of coordinates C-V
__________
he moves like light. Galileo is real science and
we must love him -- He was a modern scientist.
About the question of the velocity of light with moving earth and source
_________ the experiment with moving sources is not correct for the question
of moving objects. __________ the unit _________ Michelson-Morley proved
that the source was not moving. We needed an experiment to be done
in cosmic space but we did it in a laboratory.
experiment which was? accomplished? by Shapiro and Wallace _______
_______ system of usual theory of Space and Time was not correct.
We must change it. About the ether
{Bazileivsky wants to jump up the difficulty} ________ We
want to continue work in this field and discuss all the
subjects. We must discuss all points before
we find the truth.
Q&A {with Svetlana responding to questions.}
Q. What happens if the velocity of the source goes to C?
A. It's a trivial case when V=C.
Q. Interested in the question _______ modern accelerators worked on STR initially?
A. They are different _________ we can move ______
Q. Work of Lab of _____________ ?
A. ________ found that mystics received the condition c = constant _______ gave great
mystics.
{New respondent?}
Q. I want to understand the experiment of Ole? Roemer, in the 17th century
A. Our Institute studies this question. ______ found absolute motion
equal to C 300 km/sec. Waves moved with constant velocity.
in a medium _______ the velocity did not depend on th velocity of the source.
We want to find an experiment with halogen-neon gas spectral lines
with multiple reflections _______ around an axis. When the
line moved____ in connection with the system, C = Constant. Signal is stopped.
Two years ago we found this conclusion in the institute.
They decided to find full absolute velocity with movement
of the earth. Galactic orbital velocity 250 Km/sec.
- 36 -
Lady Judge (Olga) announces that all people are invited to the Hermitage, to the golden room
sponsored by ____________________ from the Civil Aviation Institute.
Ц ts
17:33 Arzichofsky |May be В. А. Ацюковский [V. A. Azjukovsky] (Leningrad)|
On the expediency of Returning to the Ether Conception
Speaking fast!
____________ sure that Michelson Morley (MM) experiment was not negative.
The interpretation of MM experiment was wrong. Mt. Wilson
It was proved that a 10 Km/sec difference was found and 6 Km/sec
in the second experiment.
supposed sure mistakes in the interpretation of the MM experiment sure
this experiment was right. ___________ read citations (from different authors) then burned it.
Made an analysis of all the experiments before 100 years --
now in print. Theory of gravitation is quite right but
Quantum Mechanics (QM) is another matter. This Mech? deals with
unsolved numbers little bodies -- understanding of
characteristics of ____________ paradox.
He fought against QM. _________ don't _______ phemonology but not the
process. ___________ experiment of Maxwell _________ formula was very old.
We can dispense ______ take out from science _________ We have
methods for calculations? for _______________ will
receive a big disorder _________ effective wf? as before
Theoretical _________ in physics is distant from practice.
Ether was not an image of construction but was a real thing.
The Micro world hasn't a special law for little objects.
We must use microscopic __________. The first frogs? of the
future theory? received __________ model of atomic
electromagnetic phenomena and clear all of the parameters.
- 37 -
Q. __________________
A. Question was (What is ether?) He built from ether -- the first
unusual infinity unlimited. Asks for concrete task.
It is not philosophy.
Q. __________________
A. Is nature empty? {It's} filled with ether -- Nothing is new in the world.
Q. _________________
A. Wants to find velocity of a gravitational wave and where it is now.
He wants to take this measurement. Belief of ocean of
energy in different forms.
Q. ________________
A. From classical form -- not possible to receive such a result.
Q. _______________
A. Change the method of the stage to understand material.
Q. In your theory of ether ____ hope you have many various ways to prove _________
A. From the dynamics of ether we can receive conditions
conduction? of warmth ___ sure from new theory
of ether we can solve all problems.
Q. I don't agree with your theory but don't want to ruin something. (Schmirnov)
A. ____ don't have a proposal but _______ proposed many things.
17:52 Yet to be identified speaker #2 [Man from Institute of Informatics] ______________________
Time is a function of many factors.
We can think by the help of many factors _________________________________
We can have many systems and all of them have their own time
gravitational field at one point of space & a different place different
localitiy of time ___________ a gun which pushes electrons
will receive electrical picture and will receive max and min
the event of phenomena of [an] electron will disappear in this event
____________________________________
process of changes of charge -- is of the method of measurement of time
time is __________________ we can rule time. ____________________________ .
If we can warm water in some model but we
receive the rule of time (disinformation?) wants to
change what is time, goes to a place then changes to
a different set -- by the boiling of water. Water to
gas -- gas to water___
- 38 -
18:00 - House-keeping details - something being read by lady judge.
We can see today social experiments
We have Atomic station and bombs that worked by the theory of
relativity ______ don't understand ------ FIGHT!
dangersous person who made the mouse for his friends
Biology - genetics and so in our physics point of view in Science
became political
______________
Wrap up by lady judge Olga 3/18/89 "We have to go home."
Sekerin puts in a last punch - defending Roemer's experiment (from earlier question)
- 39 -
15 March - Wednesday
THE PROBLEM OF SPACE AND TIME IN MODERN SCIENCE
Day Two
11:05 - _____________ Troisky [Troitsky] (Leningrad?) Astro-theoretics?
Source of light standing ______________ space time voices it
curves, applied? as to how it curves. _______________
Simple source, at a? very great distance _____________ studying with respect
to galaxies. __________________________
How to change dimensions when an object is dismissed. _____________2nd post
Voice of Space and time. It Depends on the distance to the source out difficult
to study ________________energy of sources has changed. ____________
Voices Space and time ____________________ used as a test.
Taken in the evolution of galaxies obsserved as a function of time and distance,
bounding to temperatures of objects. ______ Temperatures fall, therefore
the brilliance of sources fall also.
evolution ___________
- 40 -
Cannot understand experimental results by using tests.
Can't tell how much space curves.
Q. __________
A. __________
- 41 -
11:25 - И. П. ГАВРИЛОВА [I. P. Gavrilova] ( ) {lady}
{The surname English spelling in my notes is Gavrelova.}
{Lot of early comments from floor -- Dr. Parshin is interpreting for me.}
Space/Time is very important in physics thinking.
Aim of record - give short observations of physics and non-physics
understanding of space/time. This problem is connected with physics --
{and?} a very different approach.
This coincidence ________ now real understanding math contracting
physics of space. _________
Gravitation is very important in all problems from physics' approach.
Gauss, Lobichevsky, Einstein tried to understand
the connection better ________ physics voice? and physics __________(not speaking voice)
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
mass transformation?
_______________________________________
Poincaré was quite right --
_______________________________________
_________________ undetermined
____________ system
____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
emission --
__________
transforms from Newton
____________
Mach?
______________
______________
Information?/ informal? connection between physics and social system.
Opinion bureaus_______________ from theological point of view but not
from astronophysics
Understanding of time physics, geological, etc.,
various levels
Q._______________
A._______________
disagreement on floor.
Q./C. ____________
A. The geological approach is connected with the presence of minerals.
different? to connections connection to Space/Time _____ The
geologicial process is not conected
with the general current of time.
- 42 -
{15 Mar Continued} Very difficult problems ________ a mixture of various approaches
to understand _________ of time: _________
Only the theory of relativity involves all of the processes connected to time.
______
Q. Mathematics and geometrization not value of only Einstein.
but 19th century scientists? too.
A. Only Einstein wrote it correctly _______ as a property of space/time
concerning Newton's view of pure space.
_________________________________
11:57 - Б. РОК [B. ROK] Poland (Warsaw) Evolution of understanding of our view of properties
of Space/Time.
________________________________________________
________________________________________________
________________________________________________
Scientifists understood around the world cannot be a law.
Maybe some approach in understanding around the world.
________________________________________________
Understanding cannot be absolute _____ development.
{Svetlana likes this presentation.}
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
NEW
_________________________________________________
Na Oochnay N. O.
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
when it gets dogmatized is stops being science.
P says "______________________ "
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
Space and Men - Humans involved ____ men
discover the world _______________ developed an opinion
-43-
All knowledge calls for human interventions? __________________________________________________
__________________________________________________
Connect science and philosophy ___ all sciences and philosophy Philosophy = One
__________________________________________________
Sccience's picture of the world is not _____ phenomology of science
Q. ________________
A. ________________
Q. ________________
A. Some processes of the microworld are unknown.
12:30 - Б. УОЛЛАС [Bryan G. Wallace] (St. Petersburg Florida, USA) {Svetlana introduces him and interprets to the assembly}.
The Problem of Space and Time in Modern Physics
{Reprints have been asked ror from several countries.}
In 1963 P.A.M. Dirac introduced a new kind of ether. From this developed
straight line of sight photon
circular - electron
RH circle positive
LH circle negative
a dynamic ether -- particle and force all in one
material medium moving through empty space.
distance in space related to motion of material.
If it moves in a circle ________ periodic _______ time-like.
Space and time are related this material. They are man-
made expansions. They don't exist ________ only this material.
It was important in my theory to know particle or wave.
Radar and radio signals ___________ultimate test. I would think
that any reasonable physicist would realize that analysis of
transmission times _______________________.
It makes a very big difference between wave vs particle.
1st thing I realized _____________ 1958, 1961 ________ great test of this.
The data (1961) published in Astro____ Journal, 1962, 1963.
This figure is a plot of the AU as a function of radar data.
Large variations ___________ several thousands of Km for the AU.
Radar data should have been accurate to ± 1.5 Km.
These variations were not random.
30 day earth-moon period _______ and the period of earth Venus-Sun.
Small variations _________ earth's daily} rotation.
Same data as Doppler shifts.
- 44 -
Measured values of elapsed time of radar signals measured vs theoretical.
The Same article had a table of round trip travel time and Doppler
_____________________
This is Figure 1 of my 1969 paper._________ I analyzed 1961 data.
Values are from Newcomb's Tables -- Newcomb's tables are based on constant c.
If Einstein is correct the ε and N curves should coincide.
___________
The G curve is based on c+v.
Cowell's method of Newtonian integration _____________
Evidence that Newton's theory matches Radar data
I Have received more reprint requests for this paper __________
Many have come from the USSR.
Doctor Page helped me much but did not want to be
a co-author.
I had Much correspondence with Irwin Shapiro --
Radar stations around the world sent ________________ to Shapiro.
At the 4th Texas Symposium on Relativistic Astrophysics
a Shapiro talk claimed that the data was consistent with Einstein,
I challenged Shapiro. He admitted that he only analyzed
data with the wave model, c = constant.
He Admitted large variations.
- 45 -
He admitted that the math he used would cover up variations. At the meeting _____________ he said he would send me any data
I wanted. This is the letter I sent to him on February 13, 1969
asking for more data.
I wanted to show that earth's rotational period produces
sinusoidal variations with the wrong theory.
Soviet/US stations measured the earth at different positions simultaneously
a 260 Km error -- with accuracy to 1.5 Km.
Shapiro did not reply in print to Wallace - done privately.
I said,
"You offered data - you ignored ____________ in? two letters."
I quoted your remarks ___________________ you cleaned up your
errors by making one measurement perday or measured when the planet was
not visible.
Letter from Ellen Hollingsworth ____________ Air Force, sent data, but
it was worthless -- It did not have the daily variations _________
Radar sites ~ mile apart.
Theodore Moyer, JPL _________ equations same as my c+v equations.
JPL analyzes all current data. He calls the principle
term in his equation "Newtonian Light Time" -- does
not acknowledge the importance of the matter.
Published in the Journal of Scientific Ethics "The great speed of light in
space coverup." Gives all the details.
This was Shapiro's rebuttal ________ doesn't say why
it was slander.
In the next article of the Journal of Scientific Ethics I published that
if I made an error anywhere I would apologize.
_______________________________________
{Q & A will be held off until after lunch.} Participants want more details. Intense response
from floor.
Lunch - 15 March
``````- 46 -
14:36 Bryan Wallace Q & A
Q. What was your __________________________
A. _______________________________________
Q. _______________________________________
A. Einstein's search for ______________________
Q. _______________________________________
A. Science is my religion.
Q. _______________________________________
A. Einstein was not a perfect scientist.
Q. _______________________________________
A. Einstein was a politician. - Nobody is perfect.
Q. _______________________________________
A. In my opinion, some of Einstein's work is good. Some is bad. I am a realist.
Q. Determining A.U. Classical versus Relativistic position
A. JPL, accuracy ± 1 Km. - Exact evaluation shows
the value of the speed of light is somewhere between C and C+V.
Q. ______________________________________
A. Lorentz time contraction is true.
Q. ______________________________________
A. 269 Km Max error from opposite sides of the world. 69 Km. ≠ 269 Km.
Q. ______________________________________
A. ______________________________________
Q. ______________________________________
Q. I read some publication by Shapiro in 1966 -- It was written V+C 1966
Q. Welcome to Leningrad.
14:50 - В. В. ЧЕШЕВ [V. V. Cheshev] (Tomsk) - The Principle of relativity and the problem of objectivity
of space and time.
Investigate? the model of __________________
16:05 - М. Г. СЕРБУЛИНКО [M.G. Serbulenko] (Tomsk) Binary stars. {Works with Vladimir Sekerin.}
A. Presented to Physics Revew Letters -- First referee said "Go for it!"
Made changes ______ Second referee shot it down}.
According to Editor - Samuel Goldschmidt, the second referee was first referee
but the typewriters were different and texts were different (refs) --
Published letter in Physics Today.
At a science meeting the Editor was looking at me
Q. I asked about your relation to Shapiro.
A. Shapiro is evasive (to me). Does not lie - Lies by omission.
Was surprised that Shapiro changed his opinion.
3C ST
A. Would like to see that.
A. ________________________________
In science we're supposed to search for truth but we don't enter into
____________________
Sophistics against _______________________.
Fighting objective Relativity, God or Nature.
Ideal in ethics
___________________________________________
Einstein tells them absolute Space & Time. Newton _________ said same as T
tells what Newton said.
________________________________________________
Not correct.
________________________________________________
________________________________________________
Absolute motion & the image of relative motions - (origininal?) principles
positions of Galileo & Newton. _________ Absolute motions
philosophers interpretation of Newton's positions _______
therefore S/T in Newton's theory is a theory of motions
Absolute motions recognized ______ generated by forces.
Relative motions __________ effects of, appear in observations.
We see motions imm? absolute motions. We can't recognize
inertial motions or absolute motions.
?? Is Newton theory wrong? Theory exps, or not?
Newton's theory has many expplanations ___________ OK?
__________________________________________
Marchoff's/Markov's? position - critics of Newton _____ pedagogues methodologists
not physicists.
Try to understand Newton, modern ______ in Newton's ______
theory of mechanically rigid bodies. Mach's principle _______ moremove? deeply
better than Mach ____________. (aelius?) 2 chapters
research & analyze only one question ________ What is the
ground constructions which we? weigh in the beginning of conceptions?
____________ therefore it is, _________________, Poincaré, Goske? from 19th century.
Poincaré's point of view was objective reality. He thinks to prefer only
to have _______ we can measure only relations between different bodies -- elements.
___________
Poincaré says system coordinates that have been located at different points of space.
2 systems -- phys relations -- laws of equivalence - analysis
of covariance.
One type is Lorentz covariance.
Lorentz and FitzGerald think about constructs? that are also covariant.
_____
Poincaré is in rapport with Lorentz.
After Poincaré -- Lorentz says to try to construct a system of equations and transforms
from one system to another - Equations don't change.
_____
But, I think he's wrong. Lorentz transforms are such math ___________
natural physical constructs,
therefore my position ______ dual _______ supposed the invariant transforms
maybe only construction from math ______ don't connect to physics.
Chesev's ______ any transform theory only from physics point of view.
Physics and math 1718 and partly 19th century fought
thought? another point of view._____ Mathmatical construct must have a
physical basis. versus Physics must have a mathematical foundation.
Poincaré's problem - trying to construct invariant theory which
invariant theory true not only for _______, we know 1st Newton's law
is true but when C.O.M. center of mass? accelerations
1st Newtons's Law C. O. M. unsteady. Poincaré thinks it possible
to construct theory ______ mass center deform invariant
occasions. ____________
Chesev - questions What must be the methodology in analysis of
S/T problems?
Suggests that reservations? - solutions of problems -- with all data,
empirical way.
systems of coordinates _____ many ages, centuries, traditions
continuous_______ When any scientist have a questions
the scientist comes to resolve the positions in himself, then
diff ? scientists come ack to arensic? again _________
It's really sensible to come back to classical positions.
Q. We can explain using classical positions.
A.
Q,
A.
- 49 -
{Cheshev is new MC.}
15:27 - Л. М. ЗЛОТНИКОВ [L. M. Zlodnikov?] ( ) {Enthusiastic!} The problem of standardation
of words. One hundred and fifty years from Pulkovo's building
in cosmic light this institute shines.
Standardization is the main problem in large ________ Not in space only.
The principle economy of _____________
principle of __________________.
Scientific Point Of View -- words are bad terms for objects -- no science
but sophisticates, bad soph's therefore
the word time has no determined sense. ______________
He returns to 19th century & logistics
S/T is a category in logic __________________
Logic came from Aristotle _____________________
Analytics came? second
Word = image of actions / in Greek philosophy logos and ergos
Sandardized measures of S/T were constructed in antiquity
Pedago ____________________ not only Aristotle
Time is a number of continuous motion (measure)
_________________________
{Svetlana says its good. He's quoting Aristotle.}
Time going fast or slow then you change the
word -- against what background?
{folks are getting up! With it!}
In antiquity there were no abstract numbers ______________ concrete thought.
4, 5 objects ____________________ interval of time is also
comparable
Practical values come from measurements
The problem is question ________ and measurement of time are astronomy problems.
std
(Angles) Aristotle's point of View of time
{Now he's citing Plato. Crowd likes it!}
Time for plato _______ revolution of the spheres _____The problem of the solar system's construction
Idealized ideas of Plato ______ also idealized measurements of time and space.
Relativity is a lack of ideals! From mythology.
Humans are not just animals but God like.
No ideas ______ standard for micro cosmos coming to be the universe.
Standard ______ measuring crystals by use of standing waves.
[15 March continued]
Neolithic ages ___ perfect calandar - (His hobby.)
(he worked in Neolithics.
author of "The Wheels of Time"
Cycles in Astronomy.
Dual worlds of ideas and the world of objects?
separated by a wall ______ they cannot exist
independently.
Stadovsky? ___________________
______________________________
Time in geology ___ {talking too fast for Svetlana}
measures of distance _____ one meter ____ conveniently taken
in Paris ____ standard of realities ____ a sub multiple
of the circumference of the earth. _____ more than a Frenchman's invention.
_________________________
The scale is a standard of practice
(There was a) Folk saying in 19th century vocabulary, Very poor people
are living without measures - maybe this should be
said about relativist's (Joke)
Golden Section _____________
Lingusitics connection with measurements !
{He (the speaker) loast his position because he was an anti-relativist. Is
now in a new job where they don't know it.!!
Has found measurements of distances in tombs of Slavonic
tribes.______ Skief's?
His main conceptions of reconstructive measurements
Lot of physics _________ Skiefs?
(My) Construct? is not a a unified field theory but is a unified
theory of measures.
Q. _________
A. _________
Q. _________
A. _________
Q. _________
A. _________
A foot is Π decimeters ( 31.6 cm).
Q. _________
A. _________
Q. _________
A. _________
Good Q/A Session!
Q. _________
A. _________
Q. _________
A. Newton's phrase ____ Principia time is difficult
absolute time determines his space _____ primitive time
like on a watch.
Announcement about HERMITAGE Gold and Diamonds
{ L is the distance required for a binary star component's faster (c+v) later light to overtake
its slower (c-v) earlier light as seen by a remote observer. See Sekerin's illustration on page 31
of these notes. }
Time
t1 = L/N ; tc = t + L/C + v sin(ωt) (1)
Luminosity of Cepheids changing with time (Hand Out)
v' = -v sin(ωt) ; Ч = vc ; x = tc (2)
Δtc = 1/(c + v sin (ω(t+Δt) - (c+v) - c+v sin(ωt)) (3)
B(tc') = Δt/(Δt' + Δt) ; Y = B(tc ; X = tc' (4)
Lφ = T/3 + Lφ/(c+v) (5)
